Unearthing the Songs of Black Cowboys—Series 2 Episode 3

September 30, 2025 by Sonja Johnston

Portrait of Karina Vernon

In Episode 3 of Series 2, host Melissa Gismondi speaks with Karina Vernon, Associate Professor, UTSC English. The cowboy is usually imagined as white, but that story erases a much deeper history. Through the songs of Black cowboys, Vernon uncovers a hidden archive that stretches from the Canadian prairies to Texas cattle drives and back to West Africa. Her work brings forward voices that reframe belonging, survival, and identity on the North American frontier. Karina Vernon was one of JHI's Faculty Research Fellows.

Series 2—Undergrounds/Underworlds

Undergrounds have figured powerfully in human histories and imaginations as places of alterity, concealment, exploration, and discovery; of fear, transition, transportation, and transmutation. They have also figured as spaces of hope, refuge, and fugitivity that weave them into radical traditions and visions of the future. From the Epic of Gilgamesh, through the Greek katabasis and Dante, to crime rings and chthonic gods, infrastructures and escape routes, DJs and the Dark Web: our languages are fascinated with depth. But our surface worlds depend crucially on subterranean networks of extraction, exploitation, and disposal. Now more than ever, we need to understand the place of underworlds in human pasts, presents, and futures. What might a descent into the underworlds reveal?

Portrait of Melissa GismondiHumanities at Large is a podcast from the Jackman Humanities Institute that features conversations with our Fellows—scholars, artists and thinkers—who explore how the humanities can offer fresh perspectives on historic and contemporary issues. Organized around an annual theme, Humanities at Large is a must-listen for anyone passionate about the power of ideas!

Host Melissa Gismondi (she/her) is an award-winning writer and audio producer. She holds a PhD in American history and was the 2020-2021 New Media Public Humanities Fellow at the Jackman Humanities Institute.

Listen now above or on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, YouTube, Deezer or Player FM. For a full list of all available episodes visit out podcast page.

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